Emma Mcilroy, author of A Kids Book About Feminism, talks intersectional feminism, shining the light on others, and why she’s so excited about the next generation growing up.
Emma Mcilroy, author of A Kids Book About Feminism, talks intersectional feminism, shining the light on others, and why she’s so excited about the next generation growing up.
A Kids Book About Feminism (view book)
Full Book Description:
This is an unapologetic take on feminism as a thing that everyone can embrace, no matter their gender. It tackles ideas around equality, bias, and discrimination because of gender. It also empowers young girls and boys to embrace feminism and show up for others when they’re being treated unfairly.
About the Author:
Emma Mcilroy is the Co-Founder & CEO of Wildfang. Wildfang is one of the fastest growing retail brands in the USA and exists to help every kind of woman become the best possible version of herself, smashing gender roles and the patriarchy in the process.
*If you want to be on a future episode of A Kids Book About: The Podcast or if you have a question you’d like us to consider, have a grownup email us at listen@akidspodcastabout.com and we’ll send you the details.
A Kids Book About: The Podcast
S1 E06, Emma Talks About Feminism
[INTRODUCTION]
Matthew: What is feminism?
Alora: Feminism is treating women and men the same way.
Mila: Feminism is women and men being equal.
Emma: Feminism is very simple. It is the idea that everyone deserves to be treated equally irrespective of their gender.
Matthew: Welcome to A Kids Book About, The Podcast! I’m Matthew, your host. The voices you heard at the top of our show were from Alora, Mila, and Emma.
Each week we talk about the big things going on in your world with a different author from our A Kids Book About series.
[MEET OUR GUEST]
Emma: Hi, I'm Emma Micilroy and I am a queer immigrant CEO and a wild feminist.
Matthew: “Queer” is a word people in the LGBTQ community (that’s lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender community) may use to identify themselves.
An immigrant is someone who comes to live permanently in a foreign country. Foreign, in this case, means “not the country you were born in”. Emma is originally from Ireland.
And a CEO…?
Emma: A CEO is a chief executive officer. So it sort of means that you're the boss in a company. And another way that you might want to describe it is you do all this stuff no one else wants to do.
Matthew: Emma is the CEO of Wildfang, a women’s apparel company that makes shirts, suits, coveralls, button ups, and a whole lot more.
Emma: And I wrote A Kids Book About Feminism.
Matthew: I’m pretty sure that a handful of you listening have already learned about feminism. And I know that because I’ve talked to a lot of kids, and the feminist kids that I’ve met are some of my favorite kids ever. But don’t worry. Feminism is not some exclusive club.
Emma: Anyone can be a feminist. Now there are some rules to being a feminist. You do have to basically believe that we all deserve equal treatment and equal opportunity irrespective of our gender identity and our, you know, that, that piece I can’t change the rules around that piece. Right?
But yes, a man can be a feminist. Kid can be feminist. Your dad can be a feminist.Ministers can be feminists. Rappers can be feminists. We can all be feminist. It's really just, it's very simple. You have to believe in equality, irrespective of someone's gender.
Matthew: Here are four common beliefs of feminists, as shared by Emma Mcilroy in the pages of A Kids Book About Feminism:
Do you agree with these beliefs? Are these things you value or stand up for every day? If so, YOU, my friend, are a feminist!
Emma: You know, feminism has a complicated history. Not everybody was invited to the feminist movement, in particular black women and queer women who were left out of it at many times. So, uh, it definitely has a complicated history, I think. I grew up in Ireland, so a long way from here. And I don't remember hearing about feminism as a kid, so I think I was much, I think it was much older by the time I heard the term. I think I was probably at university and I probably heard feminist or feminism for the first time while I was at university.
Matthew: Emma didn’t hear the term “feminist” until she was in college. And it was still some time after that until Emma began identifying as a feminist.
Emma: You know, I honestly, hadn't given a lot of thought to feminism until about six years ago. And I was working on Wildfang, which is a business I run day to day and I realized a lot of people in the world didn't believe in feminism. And there was a big misunderstanding around feminism. That was honestly the first thing that made me dive into it was I realized that most people didn't understand it.
And I wanted to look at what people thought it maybe was or wasn't. Or why they could call themselves it or why they couldn't. And so I started to explore this idea and in exploring the idea, I realized I was definitely a feminist. And I also realized there were tons of misconceptions out there and I wanted to try and educate people.
Matthew: You are much younger, and in some ways that gives you an advantage. There are lots and lots of people your age and older who identify as feminists and who are activists trying to shape our world to be a better place for everyone.
Not sure if you’ve seen feminism in action before? Here’s what to look for:
Emma: I think the first thing that it looks like is speaking up when someone maybe says something that is sexist. So the opposite of feminist is sexist, which is the belief that people cannot do things because of their gender. Right? So that might say that I might be a terrible CEO because I'm a woman. Or maybe your daughter should go be a nurse after school because that's what girls do. Right?
Anytime you hear someone express a point of view that seems to be limited by their gender, there's probably some sexism in that and that's probably anti-feminist and therefore I would encourage you to speak up. If there's someone else who's maybe on the other end of those comments, you can be an ally to them by trying to support them in the conversation.
Feminism can look like lots of different things, but one way you might be a feminist is to hero other women. Some people call that the shine on theory, but the idea that when another woman shines the light, the light also cascades on the youth. So lifting each other up and celebrating each other is a great way to do it.
And you don't have to be a woman to do that. Men can also celebrate and lift up women, right? And boys can also celebrate and lift up girls and anyone who identifies as anything else outside of that. I think celebrating each other and lifting up people who don't always get the spotlight is a great way to do it.
Matthew: Talking with Emma about feminism makes me feel empowered. It reminds me that I already have all the tools I need to be a feminist, and that many of the things I already do are feminist and are helping to provide the same opportunity and treatment to everyone, regardless of who they are.
How does feminism make you feel? If you’re listening to this episode with other people, stop and listen to how feminism makes them feel, too. You’ve got allies around you. You’ve got people who believe and support the things you believe and support, too!
Mila: Women are so powerful cuz they’re brave, strong, and kind. My favorite thing about being a woman is that I can look beautiful like a princess. Also like a queen.
Emma: Thinking about feminism makes me feel really excited. Really excited! Because I think we are raising a generation of feminists. And more than that, I'm going to introduce a new word, they are intersectional feminists.
So they consider all the different facets that make up a person. And that might be their skin color. That might be their sexuality. That might be their body type. But there are lots of things that go into making a woman, a woman. It's not just simply her gender.
Matthew: Intersectional feminists! You consider and value all the different things that make a woman a woman. Different body types. Different skin colors. Valuing a woman for every thing that makes her a woman, and all the ways that connects with and distinguishes her from other women.
Oooh! And I love that term! Intersectional feminists!
We’ll be back in a minute with Emma - and the answer to a listener question - right after this quick break.
[BREAK]
Matthew: Welcome back to A Kids Book About: The Podcast. On today’s episode we’re talking about feminism with Emma Mcilroy.
Emma got involved with A Kids Book About way back when the idea for the company was just being dreamt up by Jelani Memory, our founder and author of A Kids Book About Racism.
Emma: I live in Portland, Oregon, and the founder of A Kids Book About, the company, Jelani, also lives here. And him and I are friends and I have huge respect for him. And he reached out and said, “I'm doing this crazy thing and I'm starting a new company. Would you be crazy enough to help me?” And I said, “absolutely! Tell me what to do.”
And so I signed up even before I knew what I was going to have to do. So, he asked me to help him write a book and he felt like feminism was a topic that people don't talk enough about with their kids. And I agreed with him. And so he gave me the honor and the privilege of being a part of that book.
So, that's how it started.
[LISTENER QUESTION]
Matthew: If you’re anything like me, you’re probably thinking to yourself, feminism seems like the obvious thing to do! Equal rights and treatment for everyone? Of course! That’s why I’m so grateful to Alora in Georgia for sending in this question.
Alora: Why are some people against it?
Emma: I think some people are against feminism because they don't understand it. I think they maybe think feminists don't like boys or feminists are really angry and I think they just don't understand it. And I think our job is to help them understand it and to help them understand that by creating equality and treating people equally, we actually allow everybody to do better.
That's the bottom line. So I think people are maybe against it because they don't totally understand it, but our job and the job of this book is to start a conversation and help them understand it.
I'm so excited about these conversations that people are having with young adults. It it's so, so important. And I think both the reader and the listener learn. I think we all get better as a result and I think this next generation that we are shaping is going to really change the world.
They are so ready for the world. Their values are in the right place. I'm really excited to see the conversations that these books create.
Matthew: 100%! Kids, you are changing the world just by being it in, by asking the hard or unasked questions, and by making space for everyone, everyone to feel valued and seen and needed.
And one more reminder from Emma...
Emma: If you do hear people say things that are inherently sexist, like girls can do certain things that boys are better at certain things, you know, feel free to educate them, feel free to bring them along.
“Girls can’t play football.” Well, Megan Rapinoe and Abby Wambach might, you know, as two of the best soccer players who've ever existed, they might disagree with that.
There are women leading major companies. There are women who win Nobel prizes. Malala I think is also still the youngest ever Nobel prize winner at 17.
So anytime that you hear someone say “a girl can't” or “a girl shouldn’t” or “women can’t”, you know, those are times that you might want to engage in conversation and you might want to educate them or share a different point of view that she observed thinking.
Matthew: Listeners, the future is yours. And we know you have the knowledge and compassion and love and motivation to make the world you want to live in.
Emma: I am very excited by the next generation who are much younger than me, but are reading these books because they understand those ideas and they are going to be a very diverse generation. And I think we're going to raise more feminists than ever before. And I think the more feminists we raise the better the world is for everyone.
[CLOSING]
Matthew: Thank you to Emma Mcilroy, author of A Kids Book About Feminism, for joining us today. And thanks to our very special kid voices for helping make this episode what it is.
Alora: My name is Alora. I’m 11 years old. I live in Georgia. And I love to act.
Mila: Hi. My name is Mila. I’m 6 and a half years old and I live in Tennessee. I like to play with all my stuffed animals and my take-care-of-animals toys. My favorite animal is a baby sea otter because they’re so cute. I love to take care of animals cuz I’m an animal expert and I love it.
Matthew: Thanks, Alora! Thanks, Mila! If you want to be on a future episode of A Kids Book About: The Podcast or if you have a question you’d like us to consider, have a grownup email us at listen@akidspodcastabout.com and we’ll send you the details.
A Kids Book About: the Podcast is written, edited, and produced by me, Matthew Winner, with help from Chad Michael Snavely and the team at Sound On Studios. Our executive producer is Jelani Memory. And this show was brought to you by A Kids Podcast About.
Subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and wherever podcasts are found, and if you liked this episode, consider sharing it with a friend, teacher, or grownup.
Join us next week for a conversation about Disabilities with A Kids Book About author Kristine Napper.