Orion Jean, author of A Kids Book About Leadership, and Don Tate, author and/or illustrator of more than 80 books for young readers, talk about seeing oneself reflected in a book and the vast diversity of who is a "reader."
Orion Jean, author of A Kids Book About Leadership, and Don Tate, author and/or illustrator of more than 80 books for young readers, talk about seeing oneself reflected in a book and the vast diversity of who is a "reader."
A Kids Book About Leadership (view book)
Don Tate (website)
Reading is Fundamental (website)
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A Kids Book About: The Podcast
S2 EP01, Orion and Don Talk About Reading
[INTRODUCTION]
Matthew: What is the value of reading, to you?
Orion: I think that reading is one of the essential building blocks for everyone to be the best that they can be.
Don: I recently published a t-shirt that reads “Books Saved My Life,” and I truly believe that.
Matthew: Welcome to the new season of A Kids Book About: The Podcast! I’m Matthew. I’m a teacher, a librarian, and I’m your host. The voices you heard at the top of our show were from Orion and Don.
Each week we talk about the big things going on in your world with a different author from our A Kids Book About series. And today is a very special day because we’re celebrating the power of reading with our friends at Reading is Fundamental, and two very special authors.
Orion: Hi, my name is Orion Jean. I am 11 years old and I am the author of A Kids Book About Leadership.
Don: Hi, my name is Don Tate and I am the author and/or illustrator of more than 80 trade and educational books for young readers. I love telling the stories of little known historical figures and I live in Austin, Texas.
[TOPIC FOUNDATION]
Matthew: Orion Jean AND Don Tate! What terrific company!
Orion is the founder of the Race to Kindness, an initiative that’s put over 500,000 books into the hands of kids. He was also recently named Time Magazine’s Kid of the Year!
And Done Tate? He’s the author and/or illustrator of some of my absolute favorite books!
Poet: The Remarkable Story of George Moses Horton.
Whoosh!: Lonnie Johnson’s Super-Soaking Stream of Invention.
Pigskins to Paintbrushes: The Story of Football-Playing Artist Ernie Barnes.
These might be books you have in your local library and they’re all SO good!
There are lots and lots of different ways to be a reader. You can read books you find in your classroom or at a library or where you live. You can read magazines. Nintendo Power and X-Men comics were my two favorite things to read. You can read pictures and signs and recipes and guidebooks and craft instructions and historical documents and movie subtitles and websites and SO many things.
Listener, you may already identify as a reader, or you may not. And both are okay. In fact, both are perfect, because today we’re not just talking about reading.
We’re talking about readers. You.
Orion: To me, reading is a skill that everybody should have.
I feel like reading can help solve so many problems. Just being able to, you know, sit down with a book and taking some time away from the world to go on an adventure or learn about, uh, a historical figure or something that happened in real life or an event that you might not have known about before.
Reading gives knowledge and knowledge is power, in my opinion.
So I think that reading is one of the building blocks. One of the essential building blocks for everyone to be the best that they can be.
Don: Well, first of all, I just want to say how honored I am for an opportunity to share this space with such an accomplished young man.
Orion, I first heard about your Race to Kindness initiative last year, and I was so impressed with you as a kind and giving human being. So thank you for all of the work that you do to make this world a better place.
It's a privilege to now be able to say that Time Magazine's Kid of the Year is someone that I know now.
What makes reading and learning to read an invaluable skill in my mind?
First I want to remind folks that I am an author and an illustrator of children's books.
I am a children's book creator, not a children's reading specialist or reading teacher, but I do believe that reading is a valuable skill. I mean, just look at Orion here and all that he's accomplished at his young age.
I would venture to say, and Orion, you correct me if I'm wrong, that reading, learning to read, is what put Orion on a path to becoming Time Magazine's Kid of the Year and everything else that he's done in his short life.
There's a book that I wrote and illustrated called Poet: The Remarkable Story of George Moses Horton. It's the story of the first African American to get a book published in the South. It's the story of a man who was enslaved in the 1800s, a man who was not free. He could not call his life his own. This was a man whose job it was to work in the fields from a sun up to sun, down with no pay.
And yet George accomplished more in his lifetime than the man who enslaved him. George became a successful poet. He published three volumes of poetry and, get this, it was protesting his enslavement. And he delivered three commencement addresses to college students.
How could a man who was enslaved accomplish so much?
Well, when George was a kid, he snuck and taught himself to read.
So reading is a skill that can put us on a path to reaching heights that we may never even imagine.
I recently published a t-shirt that reads “Books Saved My Life,” and I truly believe that.
Matthew: Listeners, I know that reading might not be your thing. Maybe you don’t yet know how to read. Maybe you haven’t yet found a story that’s connected with you or engaged or challenged or delighted you. Maybe reading is hard for you.
That’s okay.
There can be a lot of challenges that stand between a kid calling themselves a reader and finding that just-right book.
Orion: I feel like one of the reasons that kids aren't the biggest fans of reading is simply because they don't have access to the kinds of books that they would like to read. I mean, if the only books that you've ever been exposed to are, you know, old school books about history.
And I mean, maybe you may like history or maybe it would just be exposed to the wrong kind of thing, because there's some kids out there who would love to just sit down and read a history book and there's nothing wrong with that, but there are also kids out there who want to but maybe don't have access to, like, a book about an adventure or a mystery or dinosaurs or wizards or all of these things.
And I feel like one of the problems that kids have with reading is because when the only time that I've ever really read is being forced to, then it's not usually something you want to do for enjoyment.
I think for me, it was just a matter of finding books that interested me and topics that interested me. And I think that if other kids can find books and topics that interest them as well, then it will be, there will be a lot more kids who are looking forward to, you know, getting more books.
Don: You know, I think that one of the biggest challenges to reading is, you know, reading has a lot of competition, you know, when I think about my own grandchildren and I have seven of them.
They each have iPhones. They have their own Instagram accounts and TikTok and other social media accounts. Each and every one of them have X-boxes and PSP video game consoles with dozens of games.
They all have TVs in their rooms, TVs with hundreds of channels to choose from.
Books have to compete against all of this. Unfortunately, books and reading often take a back seat to TicTok. Reading is something that really must be stressed in the home, you know?
I feel like, but not only stressed, it must be modeled by example, you know? For example, with my son, who is now a college student at the University of Texas, but when he was a kid, we expected him to read. You get up. You do your chores. You take a shower. You take care of your pets. And, yes, you read. It wasn't optional, but he thanks me for it today. In addition, my wife and I, we modeled reading in the house. He saw us reading daily. Reading was something important in the Tate home, and so that's something that he grew up and valued.
You know, I think that another challenge is that while I love books, I love reading them and I loved making them, your typical picture book costs, you know, $19- $20. You know, it is much cheaper than an X-Box and a PSP, but that's a whole nother conversation for a whole nother day. Picture books aren't necessarily cheap.
And I've met many kids who did not own their own books. And I've met a lot of kids at school visits throughout this country. That's why I'm excited to have joined Reading is Fundamental in their Rally to Read 100 initiative where we celebrated and engaged kids in reading. In my case, on the important topic of, like Orion mentioned, adventure.
During the month of January, I contributed a special virtual read aloud of the book Black All Around by Patricia Hubble.
This is a book that I illustrated to support the Rally to Read 100, which is a six month reading engagement initiative which encourages kids to read 100 books by Read Across America Day. In addition, I often participate in programs like the Texas Book Festival’s Reading Rockstars, where hundreds of kids get their own signed copies of my books.
I'm proud to be working with RiF in an effort to meet some of these challenges that kids face everyday with when it comes to books and words.
Matthew: We’ll be back in a minute with more from Orion Jean and Don Tate, right after this quick break.
[BREAK]
Matthew: Welcome back to A Kids Book About: The Podcast. On today’s episode we’re talking about reading and being a reader with Orion Jean and Don Tate.
As you think about the books you love and the books you’ve had read to you, the books you read in school, and the books you gravitate toward when you can pick absolutely anything your heart desires, I’ve got a question for you… and it’s a big question.
When was the last time you saw yourself in a book?
Interpret that however you’d like.
When was the last time you saw a character like you? Or like your family? Or someone who believes and practices the same religion as you? Or has the same color skin? Or talks the same way? Or identifies the same way?
While you think about that, here’s Orion and Don.
Orion: I think it's, like you said, it's very important to see yourself reflected in the books that you read. If you're only seeing books about people who don’t… they're not like you at all. They don't look like you or act like you, were dressed like you, they don't talk like you, then you can't see yourself in an environment where these things would be possible because you've never, you've never seen it before.
It's not been, you know, you've not been represented. So you feel like there are only certain kinds of. Things that you can be things that you can do, because those are the only times that you ever see yourself. I mean, for me personally, I was just, you know, looking through like books to read the other day.
And I was trying to find an, a book to read because I just finished one and I was just looking and I was like, just so confused about why there were so many. A few books about people that looked like me doing adventures or in fantasies or in different kinds of environments that you might not normally see myself in.
Because I feel like even not just me, there are other kinds of cultures that you don't see represented enough because people aren't writing about those experiences. And I think. But that's why it's important for me to be able to say that I was able to write a book that was different than what I’ve, you know, seen.
Usually I think it was great that I was able to talk about how important leadership is and it's kids knowing that it was me a little, you know, 11 year old boy looks like them can go out and do these things, and that they can do them too. And I feel like if other authors are able to, you know, see themselves or aspiring authors, or even in other careers, they're able to see themselves represented in the area that they want to grow up in, then that can inspire so many things.
Matthew: It really speaks to possibility, doesn't it? When you can see yourself there, you can see that there's a way or a chance or a hope for you to get there too. And when you don't see yourself, it can feel like that's not a place for me, Ryan. That was beautifully articulated.
I really appreciate you giving that answer. Thank you so much for that.
Don: Yeah, I really appreciated Orion's answer. You know, I learned so much from listening to young people. Um, so I was especially anxious to hear what Orion would have to say. Um, particularly because he's growing up at a time when there is more diversity in books then when I was a kid. You know, I grew up reading Dick and Jane.
I grew up reading Mother Goose rhymes. “Jack Sprat can eat no fat.” “Little Jack Horner, who sat in the corner.” “Jack and Jill, who went up the hill.” Dick and Jane. None of these Jacks. They didn't have any black friends. So when a child grows up, not seeing themselves in books, not seeing people who look like them, you know, I think they can feel invisible.
They can feel unimportant in the world in which they live. They might feel that the books that they read are simply for white people. That's how I felt when I was a young kid. I often felt like books are for books or for white people. There's not any black people in the books that I read it wasn't until I got older and discovered books like Black Boy by Richard Wright and Native Son by Richard Wright and the autobiography of Malcolm X and those of many others that I realized that, you know, yes, reading is.
The authors who wrote those books wrote for people who looked like me. And I think another thing that can happen when books lack diversity, uh, you know, when they lack accurate images of diverse people and experiences, it reminds me of when I talked to my nearly 80 year old mom about children's books and she recalls some of her favorites from when she was at.
You know, she often talks about, and she loved the Nicodemus series. She recalls fondly, the black Sambol book books that were racist as heck. But my mom was a reader. And when it came to books, featuring black characters, that's all she had to read. She likely accepted the racism in those books as unharmed.
That's why I'm thankful that today we have books that portray black people and native people and Asian Pacific Islander people and LGBTQ people accurately and authentically and joyfully on the flip side. Um, what do you think it does to the mind of a white kid who grows up reading books featuring white people?
Because when we talk about books as windows and mirrors, historically white kids get all the mirrors. Well, those kids can grow up thinking themselves more important than others. And there we end up in some of the messes, a divided country that we're living through today.
Matthew: I just gotta say you took my breath away. When you said about representation, Don, when you said “joyfully”, you took, you took my breath away. When you said that.
Don: That is so important. Historically, you know, books featuring people of color have focused on misery and pain and slavery and civil rights. And I think those topics are important and I'm going to keep writing on those topics, but we need more books, like Orion said, that just feature the fantasy and adventure and the joy of black children, children of color and diverse children.
Orion: Absolutely. I agree. Just because those topics are, like you said, very important. That doesn't mean that that's all there is. What if there's a story about someone who looks like me, where race may not even be in a central part of the story, it's a part of the character, but that's not their entire character just being black, being black, and also having, you know, character values that you might see in a regular, you know, um, book where there isn't as much representation.
And I think that while I'm surrounded by people who are, uh, different than me, I'm just not seeing that as much as you know, in real life as I am in literacy.
Matthew: Orion and Don are not just sharing their books with the world, they’re sharing their own personal stories by how they live their lives and how they walk through the world.
Knowing your story and knowing how others might find strength or hope or understanding or affirmation through hearing your story is a really, really powerful thing.
So, listeners, I’d like to invite you to hear Orion’s story and Don’s story, and think about the gift that your life is to others.
Orion: I feel like, um, for me, my story. Being a, you know, just a normal young kid who always cared about helping others who was taken and put on this platform to suddenly spread that message to a wider audience.
And he never knew that he could talk to. And I think that just seeing how this has grown from something. You know, I wanted to do in my community to something that's gone international and people across the world are, you know, make going out in their communities and making a difference. And I think that literally my story is helping kids find a leader inside of them.
And, uh, for this reading across America, Then I agreed to join as the host of this event because it supports my passion for inspiring other kids to read so they can succeed, lead and achieve. I know that, you know, as a reader, I can have an impact on my community and across the country and without books, that would not be possible for me.
I feel like if I was reading books about leadership or. Then who knows what I might've been right now, but I think that if other kids can see it while they're younger than me or older than me, then that can really make a difference because I want other kids to know that they can, you know, do what they want to do no matter what age.
And I think that if kids are able to write those stories and to tell people, Hey, I'm doing it and you can do it too, then. If you see experiences in the real world, then you think you can do it too. And it's not just fiction it's happening in real life. And I think that's the most important part because we are living in real life.
And as much as I love fiction, if you don't see people who are actually doing it, then you might just think that it's something that you see in a fairytale or a fake story. But this is happening in real life. And I think that it's awesome that I'm able to hopefully continue to inspire kids to hopefully inspire others.
Matthew: I'm just going to tell you what I am, that I'm a 41 year old man, and I've never heard it put that way that if we just leave things to fiction, we don't know that they're possible.
That it's important to be that person walking through the world to, to be that light for other people. We can walk this way. We can do this. We can make this change. That's beautiful.
Don: Yeah, and I'm, I'm totally blown away and inspired. I'm 58 years old and I'm totally blown away and inspired by Orion's answers here.
You know, on a Wikipedia page entry about me, someone once described me as a social justice activist. And initially that gave me pause, you know, me an activist, the guy who never, it was never out there protesting in marches or carrying signs at gatherings.
Yeah, me, the guy who was too afraid to don a ask and wear it to the black lives matter rallies a couple of summers ago. But then I thought about it more and I came to realize that I am indeed doing the important work. I realized that activism doesn't have to look the same way for everything. My artwork, the books that that I write and that I illustrate, they are my activist voice.
My books make a statement on the final page of my William Steel book. I used these words in regards to what stories can do: “Stories, protest, injustice, soothe, teach, inspire, connect. Stories save lives.
And if that's not enough, I'd like to read a note sent to me by a new author of children's books. His name is Antwan Eady, and he is the author of a book called Nigel and the Moon.
And he recently sent this note to me and it just gave me chills. He says, “Don Tate opened doors for us and kept them open long before he knew just how many of us would come from. From his picture books to his activism, he does it for the culture. It's a constant reminder for us all to reach back and lift up as we climb.”
And that nearly brought me to tears. It brings me to tears as I'm reading it here again. But I also, you know, I try to inspire kids when I visit schools. I want every child to know that what I'm doing, the stories that I'm writing and my art, they can do that too.
[CLOSING]
Matthew: Thank you to Taboo, author of A Kids Book About Identity, for joining us today. You can learn more about this book and others like it by visiting akidsco.com. And don’t forget to check out “Fighting Giants.” Check out the show notes for a link.
Let’s have a quick a listen!
[play excerpt from “Fighting Giants”]
Matthew: Thank you to Orion Jean, author of A Kids Book About Leadership, and to Don Tate, author and illustrator of Pigskins to Paintbrushes: The Story of Football-Playing Artist Ernie Barnes and many other books for children, for joining us today. Thank you also to our friends at Reading is Fundamental for helping to coordinate this conversation. You can learn more about Orion’s book and others like it by visiting akidsco.com. Check out the show notes for a link to the other great resources mention in this conversation.
If you want to be on a future episode of A Kids Book About: The Podcast or if you have a question you’d like us to consider, have a grownup email us at listen@akidspodcastabout.com and we’ll send you the details.
A Kids Book About: the Podcast is written, edited, and produced by me, Matthew Winner, with help from Chad Michael Snavely and the team at Sound On Studios. Our executive producer is Jelani Memory. And this show was brought to you by A Kids Podcast About.
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts or wherever podcasts are found and check out other podcasts made for kids just like you by visiting akidsco.com.
Join us next week for a conversation about technology with A Kids Book About author Amber Case.