Rebecca Gitlitz and Samantha Rapoport, co-authors of A Kids Book About Allyship, talk about what it means to stand with others and be an ally.
Rebecca Gitlitz and Samantha Rapoport, co-authors of A Kids Book About Allyship, talk about what it means to stand with others and be an ally.
A Kids Book About Allyship (view book)
Full Book Description:
Allies notice when things are unfair, speak out against injustice, and embrace the unique differences of every person. This book is a guide (for kids and grownups) to understand the importance of allyship and empower kids to be an ally today. Together, we can create a more beautifully diverse and equitable world!
About the Author:
Sam (any pronouns) and Rebecca (she/her) Gitlitz-Rapoport are married, moms to 2 children, gay, and committed to breaking down harmful systems that hold great people back. Becca is a two-time Emmy-winning film director with a really loud voice and Sam is a sports executive named one of People Magazine’s 25 Women Changing the World.
A Kids Book About: The Podcast
S3E301, Rebecca Gitlitz and Samantha Rapoport Talk About Allyship
[INTRODUCTION]
Matthew: What is allyship?
Jack: I think allyship means, like, if one organization says to the other organization “I’ll help you if you’ll help me” and then they work together. And countries… if one country’s in trouble in a war, then the other country will step in and start helping it.
Sophie: What is allyship? Friendship, but more. You can be an ally to someone you don’t even know.
Rebecca: I think you're a hundred percent right that it is standing next to someone, right? It is standing up and saying, “I will stand by your side and I will support you.”
Sam: I think allyship means different things to different people and different groups of people. Right. But to simplify it, it's really standing up for what's right in the moment, even if you're a little scared to do it.
Matthew: Welcome to A Kids Book About: The Podcast!
We are back! For those joining us for the first time, I’m Matthew. I’m a teacher, a librarian, and I’m your host. The voices you heard just a moment ago were from Jack, Sophie, Rebecca, and Sam.
Each week we talk about the big things going on in your world with different authors from our A Kids Book About series.
Rebecca: Hi. I am Rebecca Gitlitz-Rapoport. I am a wife first. I am a mom to two really beautiful, brave children. And I am a co-author of A Kids Book About Allyship.
Sam: My name is Sam Rapoport. I am also a wife first to my wife, Rebecca, sitting next to me. I'm a mom. I'm an activist. I'm a really passionate person. And I'm also raising the same two kids who will be working to change the world for their whole lives. I am the other co-author of A Kids Book About Allyship.
[TOPIC FOUNDATION]
Matthew: Listeners, have you heard the term “ally” used before? We had some great explanations at the top of the show. When we add the suffix -ship (S-H-I-P) to the word ally, it means to be in the state or condition of being an ally. Allyship is what it looks like to be an ally, just like friendship is what it looks like to be a friend.
Sam: And I, what we wanna do with this book is we want to teach kids how to identify something that doesn't feel right in their belly and figure out what is appropriate to do in that moment.
Rebecca: We have a perfect example of how we teach it to our son., who's four years old. And, you know, he just started drawing family pictures in his little pre-K class.
He drew a picture of his mama and his baby sister and him and his mommy. And he held up the picture and he was explaining who it was. And one of the little boys said, “That's not your mama, that's your daddy.”
And if we could explain allyship in that moment, it would've been one of the other kids saying, “No, Jordy has two mamas. That's who that is.” Right? It's not necessarily saying, “Oh my God. Two moms is so cool.”
It's just saying, “No, he has two mom. And that's that.” Right? It's about normalizing and about making sure someone's not standing alone.
Matthew: Anyone can be an ally. But also, as Sam shares, being an ally is a path of continuous growth and learning.
Sam: Absolutely, Anyone and everyone should be an ally.
But it's very important to know that there's no end game. There's no time when you are going to get a badge of honor where it says “You have landed and you are now an ally.”
And it's a lot like exercise, like working out. You constantly need to work out and exercise to get, grow your muscles, right? To get faster. To get healthier.
But there's no point where you end exercise and you just say, “You know what? I'm healthy enough. I've landed. I'm healthy.”
It's the same thing with allyship. Allyship is a continuous, every day commitment to educating yourself to what other people and other groups of people deal with, and learn how yourself to, first of all, not harm those groups of people, whether it's inadvertently or inadvertently, and also learn ways that you could either step in, step to the side, step away. Whatever is necessary in the moment.
And that really is the path towards allyship; there's no finish line in that race.
Matthew: Now that we have a working definition for allyship, let’s explore what it looks like. I want you, listeners, to be able to spot allyship when you see it. And also, I want others to be able to spot it when they see it in you.
Like when Sophie shared this reflection:
Sophie: What does it mean to be an ally? Standing up for everyone no matter what their identity is.
Rebecca: I think that there's so many different examples, right? And if we're talking about kids, you know, in our house we talk a lot about we wanna be a nice family, right? But we really wanna differentiate the difference between being nice and being an ally, right? You should always be nice, but the amazing thing about kids is kids can right now step up and say, “No, they do have two moms.” Or, “No”, you know, “We all are special in our own ways.” Or, you know, “Somebody that isn't able-bodied can still play on the playground.” Right?
All of these different examples lead us to be a better ally as an adult.
And so we wanna make sure that kids understand these basic principles, um, and that this is a forever journey.
Sam: Yeah. And I think, you know, if we wanna get specific for kids, you know, there's so many different things that happen at school that require allyship, right? Some, again, some you step in some you don't.
But an example of when to step in is let's say there is a kid who's using a wheelchair, right. And it's in gym class and you have a gym teacher saying, “Oh, well, uh, she'll just sit out because you know, she can't run the bases.” A kid might step up and say, “Yes, she can.” And either push her around the bases or have her wheel herself around the bases.
It really is trying to identify ways that people maybe get left out, or may have less friends than you, or maybe getting made fun of at school, and finding ways to make that person feel better. And that's part of allyship. And that's just one little example of how kids have the power and really, really big muscles to do this themselves.
Matthew: Let’s take a quick break. And when we return, Rebecca and Sam explore the challenges a person might face in trying to act as an ally.
Rebecca: I think that a lot of times people believe that they're an ally because they put that black lives matter sign on their lawn. And while that is great, that doesn't necessarily mean that you are an ally. And it also doesn't necessarily mean that you can't keep learning. So I think one thing that we're trying to make people understand is that if you're looking for recognition for what you've done, that is sort of the direct opposite of what being an ally means.
Sam: And to that point, you know, one of the most important components of allyship is you can't call yourself an ally.
It's so important. It's like calling yourself a good friend. It's not up to you to say you're a good friend. It's up to your friend to say, if you are being a good friend. And so don't, don't self-classify. Don't call yourself an ally. That's up to someone else.
And if someone else ever calls you that just know that that is one of the biggest compliments you can get as a kid is to hear that from someone. But it's really up to someone else to decide if what you're doing is actually helping them.
And if it's not, and you need to correct that, that's okay. Learn, take the feedback that you're given from someone and, and, and do something differently next time.
Matthew: We’ll be back in just a moment.
[BREAK]
Matthew: Welcome back to A Kids Book About: The Podcast. On today’s episode we’re talking about allyship with A Kids Book About authors Rebecca Gitlitz-Rapoport and Sam Rapoport.
Being an ally is not always easy. To stand with the person who is being teased, being pushed to the outside, being left out, means that you very well could be, too.
Rebecca: I don't wanna say that, like, it's always easy to do the right thing, right? Because that's dishonest. and we believe in honesty in this house, so yeah, no, it's not always easy.
Sam: Yeah, I think it it's a difficult thing because anything that is worth doing and, you know, causes positive change in the world is gonna be a little hard, but the hard is fun and you should challenge yourself with, you know, that hard part of it.
It's something that you'll continuously make mistakes. I've been working at it my whole life. I make mistakes all the time and those mistakes are okay because those mistakes are wounds that you get that teach you how to be even better next time. And so don't get scared off when you make a mistake or you do it wrong. You know, that's when you know that you're, that you're learning and that you can keep going.
Rebecca: I think we can't stress enough that listening and learning and, and being open are such important aspects of allyship.
Sam: But one really important point too, is that, you know, allyship involves some element of risk. Right?
And so I'll give you an example. If there's a kid that's getting, getting made fun of at school and you don't think that that kid is as cool as you are, but you go stand next to that kid and just be like, “Hey, let's get outta here. Let's go have lunch.” You might be risking your friends thinking that you're not as cool as them, right?. You're taking a risk as a kid by doing this.
But when you do that, when you take that risk, that is when you become a true ally versus, you know, an ally who's just trying to do it, you know, for, so people think that they're doing it.
And so I think that's a really important component of it, too.
[PERSONAL CONNECTION TO TOPIC]
Matthew: I want to call out something here, listeners. You have been an ally before, haven’t you?
My gut is telling me that you can think of one time, even just one, where you used your voice or your actions to stand up for what is right. Maybe it was telling someone at recess to leave another friend alone. Or maybe you showed empathy where others were quick to blame. Or you allowed yourself to be inconvenienced in order to make another person feel more welcome or at home.
Am I right? In that time, pick one, that you were an ally, how did it feel?
If you feel comfortable, share your experience with someone listening with you or someone nearby. That might be a friend, a classmate, a grownup. Or you can think your answer to yourself. You can also share aloud with me. I might not be able to hear you, but I promise you that I am always listening.
How does it feel to be an ally?
Jack: I feel like it would make me feel, like, more powerful because, like, instead of being alone, I kinda, like, have a friend to help me out.
Sophie: I accept everyone as they are.
Rebecca: It feels good, right? It feels right. It feels like, you know, if I would ever see my son on a playground, like, go over to some kid and, and do the right thing, like, I would feel 100 times better as a parent than I would if he came home with an A on his report card and that matters to us, right?
Like, creating a world where people will stand up for each other no matter the cost. I think helping someone get to a more equitable place, not equal place, but equitable place does feel good, right?
We have to… we have to in principle, do what we in practice say.
Sam: I think if I'm being honest, I think being an ally scares me. Iit makes me nervous because I'm constantly questioning myself and asking myself if I'm doing what's best in this situation. And that is a-okay, because there is no rule book or blueprint that will give you, you know, the answers to this test that will tell you, ”This is how you should react in this situation.”
So it sometimes makes me nervous. It sometimes makes me scared. It sometimes makes me feel good. I've only a couple times in my life someone has called me an ally and that felt better than any feeling or anything I've ever been called in my life.
But it's okay if this doesn't always feel good, the work is that it shouldn't always feel good. And if you, if someone tells you, “Hey, I really didn't want you to step in and talk over me on there. I didn't need to be saved there. I was okay,” you have to take that feedback. And maybe that feels bad. Maybe that feels like, “Well, all I was trying to do was…” Yeah.
But the truth is, is it doesn't really matter what the intent is. It matters the result of the intent. So you should take that in as a compliment, feedback that people are giving you, and work to change that.
And I've gotten a lot of negative feedback from folks in my quest towards allyship. And I… I'm so grateful for them because they really are working to make me better at this.
Matthew: Let me read one of my favorite lines from A Kids Book About Allyship. “As an ally, you might lose a friend or get made fun of, and that can hurt. But doing what’s right for others sometimes means you lose something yourself.”
Sam: That work is what makes this noble. That is the good work. It is okay to lose something to gain something. And what you're gaining is you're making this world a better place and you're making that person's day better. And ultimately that person's life, because when you get bullied in school, you never forget it.
I still will never forget it. 30 years later, I still remember what mean kids said to me in school.
Rebecca: You know, one of the most important issues of our time is bullying, right? And I think that allyship is directly related to bullying. And I think the reason why starting it for such young kids and starting the process is because it's normalizing all kinds of different things, right?
We are not cookie cutter humans and we shouldn't be cookie cutter humans. And we come in all shapes and sizes and we believe in all different things. And we look differently and we act differently and, you know, all of those things are beautiful and all of those things are okay. And the quicker we learn that and the quicker we become an ally, and then make it that someone else doesn't need one that the better off we all will be.
Matthew: Making space for others requires some moving around. It might make us or others uncomfortable. It might mean thinking about things in a way we haven’t thought about previously. It might require lots of introspection. (That means inward thinking.) It might be a little scary because it’s so new or so different or so unknown.
I remind you of all of these things that Rebecca and Sam have brought up because I want you to know and to remember when you feel these feelings, too. And I want these feelings to help you know that you’re on the right track.
Rebecca: I think being an ally is also not making people feel other than, right? I think it's important to think about: Are the words you're saying or the actions you're doing making someone feel better or making someone feel other?
Sam: And the work really is trusting what people say. So when you're confronted about something that you've done when you're trying to be an ally, a great analogy is the proper way to respond is that is the same way as if someone told you that you had spinach in your teeth.
If someone told you you had spinach in your teeth, you would say, “Oh! Thank you for telling me. First of all, I didn't know. That's a little embarrassing. Let me go fix that.” Right?
It's the exact same thing when someone, especially in a marginalized group, tells you “What you said was hurtful" or “You should probably use this term” or “What did you mean by that? That kind of hurt my feelings.” Getting defensive and saying, “No, I didn't” or “I didn't mean it that way” is not the right way to respond.
You should respond as if someone did you a favor, like telling you you had food in your teeth. Someone spending their energy to tell you that what you said did not land well with them is a compliment and is something that you should, you know, really take as that and work to fix, like you would if you had food in your teeth.
[CLOSING]
Matthew: Thank you to Rebecca Gitlitz-Rapoport and Sam Rapoport, co-authors of A Kids Book About Allyship, for joining us today. And special thanks to Jack and to Sophie for lending their voices to this episode.
Jack: My name is Jack. I am 9 years old. I live in Baltimore, Maryland. My favorite hobby right now is crocheting.
Sophie: My name is Sophie. I am 8 years old. I live in Madison, Wisconsin. My favorite thing is my dog, latch hooking, and log rolling.
Matthew: A Kids Book About: The Podcast is written, edited, and produced by me, Matthew Winner. Our executive producer is Jelani Memory.
And this show was brought to you by A Kids Co.
Follow the show wherever podcasts are found and check out other podcasts made for kids just like you by visiting akidsco.com.
Join us next week for a conversation about climate change with A Kids Book About authors Olivia Greenspan and Zanagee Artis.